Ghost in the Tank

lierdumoa:

rob-anybody:

juvjuvychan:

What I really dislike about how some in fandom are taking this scene is how they’re glossing over Stiles actions here.  This wasn’t sweet of him, this wasn’t nice, or kind, or really respective of him.  In fact, this wasn’t about HIM at all.  Lydia is her own person (even if the show doesn’t want to give her any agency) she’s able to make her own choices and decisions and Stiles really has no right to push his feelings onto her. Especially since she’s shown no interest in returning them.  I would like them to be friends, but right now Stiles needs to grow the fuck up. 

Lydia doesn’t owe him anything, if she wants to go help Jackson, the boy she loves (and I don’t even support/ship Jackson/Lydia but that is canonically the person Lydia loves) that’s HER choice and HER right to do so.  Stiles really doesn’t have any right to make this about HIM and HIS feelings.  I get that he cares about her, and that’s great. But this isn’t JUST about him.  He shouldn’t make it just about him just because he has romantic feelings for Lydia.  

I love Stiles a lot, but the boy has some flaws he needs to work through and I don’t like how some in fandom tend to gloss them over. He doesn’t really seem to fully respect Lydia.  And he really needs to. 

As for Lydia, well the show in general needs to treat her better period. 

YES. THIS, JFC.

I think it needs to be acknowledged that the show itself does *not* gloss over Stiles’ flaws in this scene. Stiles himself realizes at the end of the scene that his behavior is unacceptable and that he is projecting. And then he apologizes.

And then he apologizes.

I have so much respect for the show for acknowledging that chivalry is not sweet, but infantilizing. I have so much respect for Stiles for having the strength to recognize his own flaws and endeavor to correct his behavior. (Because let’s be honest. Every human being at some point in their lives has been guilty of projecting and putting another human being on a pedestal, if not in a romantic context, than in a platonic, familial, etc. context.) He ultimately makes the choice to help her in her chosen course of action. Even though it makes him want to cry.

Of course there are going to be fans for whom rape culture is so ingrained that they will continue to see Stiles’ behavior as romantic even after Stiles himself and the show in general have acknowledged that his behavior is problematic. Please let us not confuse audience perceptions with the writers’ intentions. The writers’ intentions with this scene are very clear.

Regarding this statement:

As for Lydia, well the show in general needs to treat her better period. 

I disagree. Allow me to explain.

I think we are confusing how the show treats Lydia with how other characters in the show treat Lydia. Respecting Lydia as a writer does not mean ensuring that all Lydia’s fellow characters treat her with respect. Respecting Lydia as a writer means indicating textually and sub-textually that Lydia deserves respect, regardless of how she is treated by her fellow characters.

I think this scene was meant to be OOC in order to emphasize just how broken Stiles is at this point. Because he just *explodes* at her, and he’s never really done that to anyone (though he can pretty mean himself). Stiles here is angry at himself. He’s angry that he “hasn’t cared about getting hurt”. He’s angry that he didn’t realize the danger he put himself in would hurt his father, more than himself (“look at my face, huh? you think this was meant to hurt me?”). This is the crap that he’s been feeling, and turning over and over again in his head while in bed, that he couldn’t let out because he had to put up a front to his dad. 

I don’t think we were meant to excuse Stiles here, much less condone him. Because he’s not being nice here. He’s not being romantic. He’s not even being protective. He’s just being angry, and he’s unloading that anger on a girl who just wants to help.

He’s cracking. He’s in pain, and some of it is escaping that place inside him he’s locked so tightly for so long.   

***

At the same time, I agree that Stiles’s actions towards Lydia have always skated dangerously close to Nice Guy territory. What saves him, I think, is how he doesn’t ask for anything back, and how he doesn’t become bitter when she continues to ignore him. He doesn’t despise or get jealous of Jackson, even though he’s the guy who’s screwing his crush. His serious scenes with Lydia (eg. as she’s crying in her car) show that he cares about Lydia as a human being, more than his human being. And he’s genuinely moved, I think, at seeing Lydia and Jackson reunited. He’ll make himself let Lydia go, if it’s better for her this way. 

I’ve never taken his actions as chivalric, but rather tragicomic and another expression of how deeply Stiles can care. Unfortunately I can see how others would view him as romantic, but I think show itself does not, and it affirms this by making Jydia the true pairing.

(via archivebriecheesiearchive)